I almost picture it like a Pokemon where it goes from its first evolution to the second, and so on. So many of my friends were just the same old and it was this feeling of "Wow, I now have to make a choice of whether or not I want to stay within this friendship or relationship, whether or not I want to stay with it and try to coach them on their learning growth and their journey towards their personal evolution, or if I want to leave. I think Seeds of Peace also did open up the possibility of leaving. To me, this is something that should be more normalized because I would always be the rehabilitation center for people, I would be the one who would bark out and say "oh my gosh, I can fix them" and Seeds of Peace was a great eye opener to this idea that I don't have to go around playing Doctor Danielle to try to fix people.

If I were to use a word to describe Seeds of Peace, it is the idea of balance and understanding where you want to pour energy, where you want to take energy, where you want to anchor, where you want to leave like what spaces do you want to occupy in, how do you share your energy with others, etc. I think that balance is also what's missing from regular outside of Seed of Peace life. Because, in May, the amount of friends I saw that completely lost their balance because of the external change that happens outside of their control. Had I not had Seeds of Peace to instill in me this internal balance regulator, I would have also joined them and felt that unbalance.

What are some norms and advice you have for having conversations with people of different backgrounds, perspectives, and ideologies?

What I learned from Tim Wilson, the director of Seeds of Peace, is that you set the table and then you eat it. Within that analogy, you picture yourself as you're ready to eat a really delicious dinner like you're not going to sit at a table that has termites in it, and wobbly chairs and then eat your five star dinner. You're not gonna want to do that - you're not gonna want to sit at that table, you're not gonna want to immerse yourself with anybody else at the table if you're too focused on the table shaking and cracking. More, would you want to have a table that's gorgeous marble, and then bring nothing but a piece of bread to the table. So with that in mind when you're having these diverse conversations you already know that what you're bringing to the table is present, you know that you're bringing diverse identities, really rich experiences, so you have that set. So the only thing that you should really be putting energy into is setting that table.

And with that, your table is essentially the tone in the room when somebody sits down. When you're bringing all these diverse persons to the table, it has to be a warm, inviting tone. If I were to just pull you aside if we went to the same school in the middle of the hallway and be like "Do you want to talk about sexism?" you're gonna feel uncomfortable and when you know that people are watching— it can be even more uncomfortable. So, you want to foster spaces where you know that if you want to come and talk about sexism with me—I'm going to respect your opinion, I'm going to be kind to you, I'm going to call you out in a positive manner if I'm confused by what you say, and I'm also going to make space for what you're saying. So with that in mind, when you set the table, you have those norms, and you can either form them with the people you're talking with or already have them predisposed.

But one thing I do regarding the ladder is, I always come to a space, knowing what norms I want to set for that space. I always bring space and make space with me because I know when I'm very passionate about something, I tend to talk a lot. I tend to almost cut people off, so I'm very mindful about how I'm taking space in a room and making space for others. I'm a very passionate person so I tend to react to things. If somebody says something and I'm like "Oop" then I'll make facial expressions or I'll give people the side eye.

However, one thing I have learned is that I want to assume the best intentions for the people around me. I want to assume that they didn’t mean to come off that harsh or they might just say this not that, and it's always great to ask. Just setting those tones are extremely vital. Then, there is also checking in with people and seeing if there's anything they want to add because perhaps we're 30 minutes into the conversation and now somebody says, "Oh, can we add **speak up when you talk** to the group norms, I'm struggling to hear." It is important to understand that group norms are fluid, but also they're concrete in the same sense because if somebody says, "Oh, I don't want **respect** to be a group norm." You cannot invite them into that space. You cannot hold that space for them. Understand that what you define as something vital to sitting at that table and eating this meal is one of the key steps to holding these good dialogues because it makes people feel comfortable.

Why is it so hard for people to have conversations about tough issues, such as race, privilege, gender, sexuality, sexism, socio-economic issues etc?

I would say it's because we're very comfortable in complacency. We're a society where we like being comfortable, and once we achieve that sense of comfort, if anybody seeks to disrupt that comfort, we go on the defensive. Because in my dialogue group, we had three people who are a part of the 1% like very wealthy people. I remember whenever we would have conversations surrounding the topic of being a little lower middle class or lower class, they would be quick to defend themselves. It was so mind-blowing because we weren't saying anything about them and we weren't saying anything bad about them, but it was something where we were threatening their status quo—creating a world where there's more equality in socioeconomic status threatened the person because that is what they held comfortable to themselves.

We have to acknowledge the privileges people have and the privileges they don't want to lose. Because when we're in these spaces and we're trying to have dialogues, we have to be so mindful about saying, "I am not you." Because the tone completely changes if I say "you as a white man are the one oppressing me," versus if I say it "some of these actions in society that I face because I am a black woman are oppressive..." completely changes the tone and saying, some of this actions in society that I face because I am a black woman are therefore harmful.

The way that you hold those spaces and make sure that you're acknowledging that it's not a defensive space is super vital. Also, recognize that some people won't change. Some people go to Seeds of Peace and they come back the exact same person; other people have this a complete metanoia and they change. Understand that when we bring ourselves outside of Seeds of Peace, there will be people who join our conversations and they bring it back to their group chat and they say this was the stupidest thing I've ever done, there will be people who bring it back and they say I didn't learn anything from that. Sometimes, these people might be the majority, but, as long as you're doing the fundamentals of acknowledging the space you're in, acknowledging the identities present, and being mindful not to make those accusatory statements, you can get far with dialogues outside of Seeds of Peace and make them successful, but you cannot let anybody who doesn't come away with something positive bring down that space that you have tried so hard to create.

Given the current climate of our country, we see many divides between different ideologies and perspectives. Why is dialogue more important than ever before?

I would say, first off that a society without dialogue has its own downfall. In May when things were really starting to erupt in terms of racial injustice, the pandemic, and all of the above, people were struggling to talk about anything. There was a lot of deafening silence from my friends and from people I looked up to - the staff and faculty at my school and I was shocked. I was itching at the seams, trying to speak up, trying to say things, and it felt like my voice was falling on deaf ears because I didn't have anybody to talk with.

This idea of understanding dialogue is the Bridge to Terabithia; it is what connects you to the other side. I remember that I would see some of the people who attended my school posting these horribly big things on their Instagram story and here I would swipe up and ask them "Why?" and that "Why" was oftentimes met with "I don't know." The idea of dialogue and asking that "Why" is the catalyst to getting people to either change their opinion, or at least become a little more open minded, and that open mindedness is what we need to make any progress in terms of racial justice, socio economic justice, handling a pandemic, and everything in between.

Dialogue is the route to opening minds and making change. What a lot of people don’t understand is that having tough conversations can also benefit you as an individual and it doesn't have to be with other people - it can be some self-reflection. If I had kept everything in my soul from May all the way to now, I would have exploded by now. Because I was able to have dialogue within myself —whether it would just be looking in the mirror and speaking to myself or chatting with my mom and dad. Just being able to have people who understand dialogue in the sense of carrying it out and saying "This is what I'm looking at; this is what's frustrating me; here's what's making me happy; here's what's making me sad." Having those tools, not only for your inner self, but for the way you operate in your communities is so important because while my friends were battling these online racists, I was able to pick my own time and say, "Okay, I'll choose to educate or maybe I won't respond to these people anymore." It just changes the way you see yourself in these situations of crisis when there's conflict knocking at the door. If I were to not know how to perform dialogue or just had to hold it within myself, I would crumble. However, because I had those tools, I'm able to face it head on and then try to make change in any way possible.

How can we promote and hold spaces to have conversations within our own community, even when they are difficult?

Believe it or not, when you simply just hold space for others, people will eventually trickle in. If you start, whether it be by yourself or with a small group of persons and start to have those small conversations then draw up a flyer, and put the word out. People might not stroll in the first day, nor the second, nor the 30th, but people will eventually seek out what's different from the status quo. I've been using a lot of analogies, but it's like if we as Mainers saw a brand new shop that brands itself as "California dreaming," we would all have that curiosity because it's different from our status quo - we're Mainers, so we're comfortable in Maine. But if we had something so different anchor a space that we could occupy, that's where lights go off in our head and the human reaction is "Hey I want to try that out."

So, with dialogue, even when they have to be these heavy spaces, as long as they're inviting and as long as those ground norms are set, people will eventually stroll in. Perhaps the first person who strolls in will come back next time with a friend, or two, or three next time they come. To sum that all up, it's essentially just creating those spaces and having them be available, and then making sure that they're warm, inviting and squeeze them into your everyday conversations. Your space is still as valid as other spaces that might have 100 members every time - it's about taking time to create these safe spaces in the first place.

How can we still have an equitable space/civic engagement within a homogeneous community?

I would say one of the “do's” is create those spaces and lay down the ground rules to ensure that people understand that this is not a debate, this is not something where you are coming in with an argument, this is not something where you're going to come and attack the minority group that's present in the room. Then the major “don’t” is understanding that any other minority group in the room is not the spokesperson, they are not the people who you are supposed to turn to and ask "tell me about being black." They are not those types of people.

Once you establish those two major do's and don'ts, the space then becomes something where you ensure people that it's a conversation, it might get heated, but it's a conversation. You also want to ensure that you're recognizing that even within a homogeneous group, there is still diversity within that like not all the white people at my school are mega conservatives and not all the white people at my school are straight.

Understand that you should be asking that people come with a difference of opinion, so then it creates not only a kind of firewall for anybody who's a blatant minority, but it does create something where you're able to have more allies, and a sense of ally ship, because if I know that I can turn to "Tiffany" and know that "Tiffany" thinks that ‘Black Lives Matter’, I'll feel 10 times more comfortable than having this false us versus them dichotomy. I would say that holding dialogues with homogeneous spaces is to acknowledge the diversity within those spaces and within the majority group, and also acknowledging that this is not something where every minority group becomes a spokesperson.

Do you have any final thoughts, opinions, advice that you would like to add?

As cliche as it sounds, just keep at it. There will never be a perfect dialogue, there will always be somebody who might come away feeling hurt, stressed, upset, angry, or bored. Don't let that stop you. As a society that sees things based on tangible achievements like “you did good on the paper because you've got A” , dialogue is completely different. There's no A on your dialogue group, and being able to understand that you'll never know what goes on in some of these minds - the person walking out of the room might be thinking "Wow, that was the most boring thing I've ever been to" or they might be thinking "I feel so conscious. I feel so awake." and you'll never know. Sometimes they'll walk up and tell you, but just keep doing it for the sake of doing it. Even if your group has two people and it's just you and your friend going back and forth, that is just as valid as a group that has 500 people and understanding that no matter the size, no matter how long you have these dialogue for - that it is still worth it because at least it might be getting through to just one person, and if it's not, you and your friends are building up your consciousness about how you want to operate in the world, and these are life skills.

There will be lots of time in life where you will have to disassemble a conflict, where you will have to calm down the nerves in your room, and just understand that sometimes we might be looking for short term tangible results. In reality, this is about the long term, and about who you are creating yourself to be: the mark and legacy that you're leaving on the world around you.

You can reach out to Danielle on Instagram @thedaniw